UPDATED Solutions to Get Rid of All Acne Scars

😀 Hi everyone today is Monday January 27, 2003. I am adding new web links to a relatively new procedure that permanently removes acne scars. This procedure permanently removes all scars and it is similar to a procedure called Neelding BUT it is NOT needling. Please read these new links so you can deceide for yourself if you want to try this procedure. I opted to have only one scar done when I tried the Subcision the first time because I did not know how my skin would react to this procedure, and I guess I am a ‘fraddy cat’ when it comes to my face. I am very pleased with the results from my Subcision. It is just 2 weeks now, and I have 2 to 4 more weeks where my body will be replacing new collagen in my face where the scar is located, that I had Subcised. All that I can see right now is a reddish mark where the ugly scar used to be. I cover it up with make-up when I go out. I would say that I have had a 80 to 90 percent fill in on this scar. I have not posted the doctors name but she is one of only a few doctors that are doing this procedure right now in the United States. I think I will ask her if it is alright to post her name here before I do it. BUT if you e-mail me here at this site I will give you her name and address. She already has a lot of patients traveling to see her to have this procedure done because she has been doing it a while, and I guess her name has already been mentioned on the web. She does not have a web site herself…yet! It might be difficult to get an appointment with her. The day I made my first appointment I got it because someone else cancelled out, and I lucked out!

Please feel free to post any information you have on scar revision in this thread. All of these sites in this thread have information on scar revision. I have included an encyclopedia in the links posted in this thread.

The above link is to a butt Subcision, which is being done to eradicate the dimples on this person’s butt. Subcision is being done on thighs and butts so they will look better in brief bikinis. Subcision is also used as a means to soften facial lines. Ooo, :roll I bet that Butt hurt for a couple of weeks after that procedure!

The above link is to a message from a person who had Subcision done by a doctor located in London, 😀 England.
Maya, this particular Subcision sounds a lot like needling to me. When I had my procedure done I had a lot of bleeding with a very large clot under the skin, which had a compression bandaid on it that lasted 8 hours, and helped to keep the swelling down. With Needling I don’t think there is a lot of blood? The doctor did not direct me to use ice to keep the swelling down. I think you need the large clot to form under the epidermis in order to hold the 2 layers apart while the collagen is healing. BUT I have read about a full face needling procedure done on an Asian person who said that his face swelled up quite a bit after the procedure. I do not know how long this swelling persisted.

I have read that some doctors are putting in filler to fill in the pocket that is created where the Subcision has cleared out the too short collagen fibers, and this is being done immediately after the Subcision procedure.

Adding fillers will raise the price of Subcision quite a bit.

What I had done was without any filler. My body is providing the filler. I do support the growth of collagen by taking at least a gram or more of vit C every day and I am using a sulfur based moisture cream that is carried into the dermis level of my skin by the addition of aloe. Aloe is often used as a ‘carrier’ for other skin care products because of its trans-dermal property.

The above link is to the Indian Journal of Dermatology. Subcision is being done all over the planet. :mrgreen Today we do indeed live in a ‘small world.’ Subcision is a very good choice for person’s who have darker skin because it does NOT damage the upper epidermal layer of the skin. Fillers can be used or not after the Subcision. Mild peels or V-Beam can be used afterwards to stimulate more collagen and fill in very shallow scars that do not need Subcision.

The above link is to Subcision for the eradication of facial lines. Botox has been used to smooth out facial lines and wrinkles BUT Botox is expensive and has to be repeated in order to keep the face smooth. Subcision is a permanent solution, and sometimes it has to be repeated depending on the skill of the doctor and the manner in which the patient’s skin produces collagen. Of course if you opt for a doctor who does Subcision and then injects permanent filler it is just plain permanent. The price for a single scar to be Subcised ranges from $85 American on up to several hundred dollars. I opted to have a single scar done because I did not know how my body would respond to this procedure. I am very pleased with the outcome and I paid only $85 American. The doctor I saw charges $150 American for at least 20 scars to be Subcised, and I have heard that a doctor on the East Coast charges up to $700 for the same procedure. Right now there is a big price difference, and this benefits the consumer, namely those of us who need this procedure.

😀 I am showing a lot of different ways that Subcision is being used because I want people to understand that Subcision is for many different types of scars, not just acne scars. So if you have a friend who has a scar from a car accident or some other mishap then let them know that this option is out there for them to pursue. Also, I do not say much about Needling because it is Maya’s domain because she is the person who is having all the experience with Needling and therefore is the expert. I would refer you to read Maya’s thread on Needling to know about the options in this treatment.

The above link is to a Subcision procedure that was performed on young woman who had acne scars. The 2nd photo was taken 1 week after the procedure. You can see that her skin is still bruised. It takes 4 to 6 weeks for the collagen to fill in acne scars after Subcision. :book How far the skin fills in with it’s own collagen is dependent on the skill of the doctor doing the procedure, and the patient’s ability to produce their own collagen.

:crazyeyes I think I have already mentioned that I take at least a gram of vit C every day. Some times I will take more it depends on what trees are pollinating. I have allergy to trees, and I take extra C when allergy time rolls around. The C stops allergy.

I divide my supplements between my 2 main meals. I take a lot of supplements to support my immune system and to keep the acne away. I am lucky that I love to cook and plan out meals that are rich in nutrients that support my health. I intend to live a long and prosperous life, and good diet and supplementation combined with physical exercise, and of course inner peace are the four corners of human philosophy that make it possible to achieve this goal.

😀 The above link is to a site about a doctor who uses ‘thin wire Subcision’. This type of Subcision also makes me think of Needling. Maya, perhaps you might like to include this site in your Needling thread?

This doctor’s patients do not bleed much, and they do not bruise much. This makes me wonder how good the improvement is to the scars he works on.? :scratch When I had my treatment there was a lot of blood and a blood clot was under the skin for at least 8 days plus the surface bruising took around 8 days to clear out. I just want to show that different doctors approach this technique in different ways.

The above link is to a book that describes in detail the various techniques of skin augmentation.. I am sure someone will be interested in owning this book.

This person traveled from Dallas, Texas to New Jersey to get Subcision done. There are not very many doctors doing this procedure today. I have met a person here in California who traveled to New Jersey to get this procedure done. We need more doctors doing this procedure, and I am sure that in time there will be quite a few as it gains in popularity but we really need them now!

The letter below is one I posted to a person who was very concerned about facial acne scars. I think that body scars like on the shoulders and back will respond to Subcision. At last there is help for persons who have body scars from this terrible disfiguring disease.

Hi Steve 😀
I have asked several dermatologists the same question you asked, “Why did I scar from acne when I did not do anything to it?” I say several because I have tried different ones over the years trying to find one that wasn’t just guessing at how to get rid of my problem. Right now I don’t have much of a problem with acne at all but I do have some scars from past acne.

First, red marks will go away in time they really are not true scars.

True scars from acne are depressions in the skin.

The depressions are caused by the infection that is inside the inflamed pimple/cyst eating up the collagen in the dermis level of your skin. Once the inflammation (pus) goes away there is an empty pocket in the lower level of your skin, the dermis, which is the level below the epidermis, and the epidermis sinks in, and is seen as a depressed scar on the surface of your skin. This empty eaten out area fills in with short collagen fibers between the lower dermis, and the upper epidermis level of your skin that actually hold the scar in place, and no matter how many peels or laser treatments you get the scar remains depressed.

Sometimes wiping off the pus head, if there is one involved with the pimple, with a sterile gauze pad that has a dab of 70% alcohol on it, and applying a good antibiotic cream or gel afterwards to the area like zinc bactrin will kill off the inflammation that is still in the upper epidermis level of your skin, and your skin will heal on the surface without a scar, because the lower dermis level will not be eaten away. People tell you to not squeeze because squeezing can force the infection into the lower dermis level of your skin and then it can get worse, and end up scarring.

If you have a deeper infection like a cyst that does not have a pus head on the surface of your skin, and hurts when you touch it then you could get an injection from your dermatologist that is done directly into the cyst. This injection could be an antibiotic that is injected. When antibiotic is used this way it will be a local and not a systemic antibiotic. This is much better than taking antibiotics by mouth, which is systemic treatment and can cause other problems. I had some of these injections directly into the cysts in the past, and when this is done the cyst does not make a scar. I have read that sometimes cortisone is used for this injection instead, and this also makes the inflammation go down, and the end result is the same because the skin does not scar.

Does this make sense to you? I am trying to explain what a doctor told me when I asked why I got the scars I got.

Don’t despair if you have any acne scars now.

If they are truly depressed scars there are things that can be done. I recently had a procedure called Subcision done on a rather nasty scar that was on my cheek. You have to find a doctor who really knows how to do this procedure, and has done it on many patients before you because it takes great skill to do it right. The doctor numbs the area of your skin where he/she is going to do the procedure. He/she will mark the area with a surgical marker. The Subcision is done with a needle that has some sort of cutter on it. I did not see the needle so couldn’t say what it actually looks like. I could not see anything but I could hear the sound in my ears of the strands of my collagen breaking. It sounded like threads being cut. After the procedure the nurse cleaned off the surgical marker and applied a bandaid but she applied it tightly to cut down on the swelling. You don’t want to swell up too much. The bandaid stayed on for about 8 hours before it fell off and I could get a better look at the bruise I had. I did not receive any instructions to put anything on the area but I was told it was ok to put the MSM/aloe cream I use and the Jojoba oil also, which I did. I have a second appointment to see this doctor for the same procedure next month because the doctor said that the scar might need a second Subcision. Today it is 7 days since the procedure and the bruising is almost gone. I can’t see the scar at all. The idea behind this new procedure is that when a scar forms the healing of the collagen becomes ‘short’ in places between the outer epidermis level of the skin and the inner dermis level of the skin. The doctor just cuts the ‘short’ collagen fibers and they hopefully will be replaced by fresh collagen that has ‘longer’ fibers attaching the lower dermis to the upper epidermis. When the length of the collagen fibers between the upper epidermis and the lower dermis level of the skin are elongated the scar disappears from the surface of the skin. Flawless skin is the result. Can you believe that? I keep looking in the mirror at my former terrible scar, and it is not there now!

I know all of this sounds just too simple but that is what is so amazing about this procedure! It is so simple, and so safe. It will not work on all scars because some scars are only in the upper epidermis level of the skin, and can only be removed by removing the upper layer of the skin several times over and over in order to reach a lower level where the skin evens out.

Be careful and make sure any doctor you see is an expert in scar revision because going to someone who is only interested in making a lot of money off of you could leave you with the same scars you had when you first saw the doctor and with a smaller bank account afterward or worse the doctor could do something wrong, and leave you with worse scars from whatever they do to you.. Some doctors are doing laser on people who should have Subcision, and the patient wonders afterwards WHY the laser did not remove the scars. It is because the collagen fibers are holding the scar in place!

Good Luck I hope I have helped in some small way. :angel

PS I am going to include this reply to you in my thread on getting rid of shallow acne scars since I have had this positive experience with Subcision. The funny part is that I went to this doctor to get a chemical peel, which is much more expensive than the Subcision, and she said that Subcision would get rid of the really bad scar that was on my cheek. She does this procedure all the time with positive results. I may still get the chemical peel some time in the future for my more superficial scars. I hope you have as much luck as I have had.
God Bless!

The following link is to a web site that is selling a ‘cheap’ method to get rid of shallow acne scars, and we really need low cost methods these days. I think these cloths would work best on skin that is not inflamed with acne but has shallow acne scars from past breakouts. Please read this web site over and make up your own mind as to if you want to give it a try. 🙂

This is the Exoderm Lift forum. Exoderm is a peel that dissolves the top layer of the face to remove acne scars. Several Exoderms may be needed for deep scars. :eek

This page explains the Exoderm Lift. There is a link to Dr. Rullan’s home page here. While the Exoderm Lift was invented in Israel there are several American doctors that have been trained in how to perform this procedure. :girl

The Exoderm Lift is one of the ultimate face peels that removes acne scars. A person should be in excellent health to have this procedure done. I do not know if women on birth control are eligable to have this procedure done. Exoderm is composed of several chemicals, which melt the top layer of the skin, and takes about 8 days to complete the peel. The face takes on a ‘lifted’ appearance after this peel hense the name, Exoderm Lift. I do believe that people who have this peel done have a red face for several weeks to several months afterward. The lengrth of time for the redness is mainly dependent on the individual person’s chemistry. The link I have provide here is to the website in Israel. It is written in both Hebrew and in English, and you are given a choice as to which language you wish to read it in. I know this procedure is also performed by doctors here in the US. The cost in the US is in the $4000 range per peel, and severe acne scars may need more than one of these peels. :roll

Here is a news article on the history of chemical skin peels, which go back to ancient Egypt where Cleopatra used milk to bathe in so her skin would exfoliate faster and remain light in color. This is an excellent article, and I know that everyone who is interested in removing shallow acne scars will find this article a very good read. :crazyeyes

Skintech web site with the Unideep Peel for surface scars, another peel called the Easy Phytic Solution, and several creams including one that is a Special Depigmentation Cream, which is used to help even out the skin color after a deep peel. :tu

This link is to a paper on acne and acne scars and why it is important to treat. This paper was written by Gregory J. Goodman, President, Skin and Cancer Foundation Melbourne, VIC. This paper originally appeared in eMJA , which is The Medical Journal of Australia. On this page you will find a home page link to this prestigious publication, which may contain other articles on skin and scar repair in both the past, and sometime in the future. You may want to save this link. 8)

This is not a link instead it is a post I copied from the voy board because the poster outlined how to do an Obagi Blue Peel at home. I know if you search the web you can find wholesale outlets where you can obtain the Obagi products. Obagi costs quite a bit at a dermatologist’s office. Obagi peel is not for anyone with thin or sensitive skin, and it is not for anyone who has recentily finished Accutane. Check with your OBGYN/Dermatologist doctor to find out if you can do any skin peels if you are presentily taking any form of birth control because hormone levels can affect how your skin reacts to any chemicals you put on it. :flirt
OBAGI PROTOCOLS — SAM, 01:01:07 09/19/02 Thu





You should always protect your skin with sunblock if you do any type of skin peel because your skin is more sensitive to damage when the top layer has been removed.

This link is to Hirudoid scar/bruise cream information. :mrgreen

Fascia /Fascian is an injectable scar filler. It is produced from human tissue. I am not a fan of this product but you might find this particular web site interesting :shock

Plastic Surgery Encyclopedia… :eek

Great site written by a pair of Dermatologists who are affiliated with the University of Alabama, USA. They write about many different fillers including Isolagen, which will be available in the US around March of 2003. 😀

This is a scar research company located in the UK. :turn

Emu oil is very good because it penetrates into the top layer of the skin, and most people do not seem to have a negative reaction to it. This web site claims that the Emu oil will make the scars look less noticeable? :shock

Aloe based scar removal system. This is completely new to me as I never thought of aloe as doing more than just sinking into the skin as a moisturizer. :scratch

DermaSponge claims to remove wrinkles, lines and skin discolorations but does not say it will remove scars but thought I would include it because if it will remove the top layer of the skin then if it is used many times over and over then how far will it penetrate into the epidermis of the skin? 🙂


Related Acne Archive Posts & Questions

59 thoughts on “UPDATED Solutions to Get Rid of All Acne Scars

  1. :angel Hi Josh, welcome to clearskin4me board.
    Your picture looks great that accutane really does the job! 😀
    I hope you find some interesting scar removal techniques to finish your recovery from acne.

  2. :book Hello,
    I hope everyone had a warm and cozy Christmas.
    I posted 4 new links to the scar repair thread this evening. There is a link to a different peel called Unideep Peel plus a link to a forum on Exoderm if anyone is interested in getting an Exoderm Lift Peel, and wants to talk to others who have had the peel or are thinking about getting one.
    PS I love all the new “Smiles.”

  3. Hi Everyone!
    I finally found another unusual new method of scar revision, and I posted it in my original post. Problem with updating is that it does not move the post so I had to do a reply to get it bumped up so you can see the new information. I had read about dermabrasion cloths before, and I did do some searching but could not find the web site until tonight. This is a nice inexpensive method that can join needling as an alternative to dermabrasion, laser or chemical peels. I was wondering if these cloths would work well on skin that had been needled already, and had formed new collagen in the dermis but needed a little smoothing on the surface?

  4. :angel Microderm cloths look interesting. Has anyone tried these cloths? Do they work? Red spots or craters? Anyone?

  5. Hi everyone,
    😀 I just posted a new piece of information in the first post in this thread. It is a reply I made to another poster today in another thread on this board. My original intent was to wait a month, and then post in this thread about my personal experience with a scar revision procedure called Subcision. I decided to go ahead today and post what was happening to me.
    I hope my experience and other information I have included will help someone.
    Take care,

  6. Solomio,
    Could you give me the name of the doctor who did your successful subcision?
    Thanks, Anna

  7. 😀 New web sites on scar revision have been added today.

    Anna, e me at this web site and I will answer your question.solomio

  8. Forgive me for being ignorant, but how do we email
    you at this website? Your profile doesn’t list an email
    address, so I am stumped :crazyeyes

    I am interested in learning more about the doctor
    that performed your surgery as well as the costs

    Thanks 🙂

  9. Nice anthology 🙂

    This thread should be at the scar treatment board at the acne.org forum, would probably be of more use there.

  10. I agree with Will, this thread would benefit lots of people on the scar board. I’m loathed to cut and paste it there, but would you have an objection? Or could you do it? 😀

  11. 😀 Hi Maya,
    You know how I feel about helping my fellow human beings especially those who have suffered like I have with acne, and have suffered with the resulting scars that are left behind that show the world the suffering that we have endured. I think I have called these acne scars the ‘monsters footprints’ in another post.

    This thread became Mari’s property as soon as I published it here on her web site so PLEASE ask her if it is all right with her to COPY it, and publish it on your acne scar forum.

    I would love for you to do a COPY of this thread, and post it on your acne forum. I want the original post to remain here on Mari’s forum so more people can read it and benefit from my experience.

    I am registered on your scar revision forum as Solomio but really have not said much over there because I have been so awed by all the excellent information that has been presented there that what I do at your place is mainly READ everything.

    I first read about Subcision on yet another scar revision board about 6 months ago. I saw pictures there of a man who had this procedure done on acne scars on both of his facial cheek areas, but the doctor he saw was located in New Jersey, and that is so far away from California!!

    I used to pay $300 American every 3 months to have bovine collagen injected into this particular scar when I could afford $300 dollars every 3 months to do this procedure. I had bovine collagen injections in this scar for years! It cost quite a bit of money but I did not want to have this scar , and this was my only option at this time. People tend to focus their attention on a person’s face when doing business, and a really nasty scar can take away from your effectiveness when you have to be effective in your job.

    The Subcision needle is different from a regular needle, and the skill of the doctor performing the procedure is extremely important. I could actually feel, hear the strands of collagen being broken but could not feel any pain because my skin had been numbed. As I have said there was a lot of blood on my face after the procedure, and a large blood clot under my skin that actually held the 2 layers of the skin apart while it healed and reproduced new collagen. The new strands of collagen are much longer meaning the scar is not being held down, and the scar has faded away because of this action..

    I hope that Mari agrees to give you a copy of this thread to post on your scar revision forum.

    Thank you,

  12. 😀 Hi Maya,
    You know how I feel about helping my fellow human beings especially those who have suffered like I have with acne, and have suffered with the resulting scars that are left behind that show the world the suffering that we have endured. I think I have called these acne scars the ‘monsters footprints’ in another post.

    This thread became Mari’s property as soon as I published it here on her web site so PLEASE ask her if it is all right with her to COPY it, and publish it on your acne scar forum.

    I would love for you to do a COPY of this thread, and post it on your acne forum. I want the original to stay here on Mari’s forum so other people can benefit from my experience.

    I am registered on your scar revision forum as Solomio but really have not said much over there because I have been so awed by all the excellent information that has been presented there that what I do at your place is mainly READ everything.

    I first read about Subcision on yet another scar revision board about 6 months ago. I saw pictures there of a man who had this procedure done on acne scars on both of his cheek areas, but the doctor he saw was located in New Jersey, and that is so far away from California!!

    I used to pay $300 American every 3 months to have bovine collagen injected into this particular scar when I could afford $300 dollars every 3 months to do this procedure. I had bovine collagen injections in this scar for years! It cost quite a bit of money but I did not want to have this scar , and this was my only option at this time. People tend to focus their attention on a person’s face when doing business, and a really nasty scar can take away from your effectiveness when you have to be effective in your job.

    The Subcision needle is different from a regular needle, and the skill of the doctor performing the procedure is extremely important. I could actually feel, hear the strands of collagen being broken but could not feel any pain because my skin had been numbed. As I have said there was a lot of blood on my face after the procedure, and a large blood clot under my skin that actually held the 2 layers of the skin apart while it healed and reproduced new collagen. The new strands of collagen are much longer meaning the scar is not being held down, and the scar has faded away because of this action..

    I hope that Mari agrees to give you a copy of this thread to post on your scar revision forum.

    Thank you,

  13. Oh Solomio – thanks sweetie 😀 But what I meant was adding just the web links to individual threads that already exisit on the scar board.

    Do you know much about N-lite? – I have started hearing a lot on this and it does sound very promising.

    My main problem is:
    1. The lady I was meant to get a needling session with has dissapeared of the face of the earth!!!
    2. I can’t find anyone in the UK who does subcision – not sure where to start looking, have only attempted to look on the internet.

    Can you give me the different names that subcision would come under. Thanks!!

  14. 😀 Hi Maya,
    Linking to this thread is the best way to go.

    I guess I misunderstood you because I am also registered at your board, and perhaps thought that you wanted me to post something over there. I was planning on linking to this thread within my presentation.

    I did a search for a couple of hours last night on Subcision in the UK, and found very little. I am going to continue my research on this subject, and perhaps later today I will post my results. I believe that doctors in the UK have not yet gotten used to the idea that advertising on the web is really an asset for their practices. Not all doctors in the US are using the web to advertise their services, just a few are doing it so it may be the same in the UK?

    Even the doctor that did my Subcision here in the US does not have a web site. But then she has been a practicing Dermatologist/Surgeon for around 40 years. She has a lot of experience doing surgical procedures, and she has an established cliental in this valley. Most of her business comes from people telling other people about her.

    Subcision is not a new surgical technique.

    All plastic surgeons are trained in Subcision technique.

    It is possible that a plastic surgeon will charge more to do this service than a dermatologist will charge. I am not sure on this point. Perhaps this depends on the doctor.

    Insurance in the US will not cover any scar revision procedure excepting some cancer scar revisions. This is because they consider scar revision to be ‘cosmetic.’ This is a very sad situation, and is why many doctors who could do this procedure will not touch it.

    Most people do not have a lot of extra money to pay for cosmetic procedures.

    Then there are some doctors who do this service, and do not charge too much for doing it. I guess this type of doctor gains a lot of personal satifaction within themselves from seeing the finished result of their work on their patients faces.

    Subcision has been used to soften facial lines for some time now, and in Brazil and France plastic surgeons have been using it to get rid of the ‘dimples’ that are in cellulite on the ‘butt’ and on the thighs. There are no scars from the Subcision when the doctor who does the procedure knows how to do the procedure well.

    Using Subcision to eradicated deep acne scars is what is so new about the procedure.

    My Subcision was on a double cyst area that was an old scar area, and it was successful!

    In my travels on the web I have read that this procedure works equally as well on new deep acne scars.

    The only mark I had on my face that was caused from this procedure was a small red dot. I could see this small red dot at the second week after the procedure. By the third week after the procedure the red dot was gone. Today is Jan 31, and I had the one scar Subcised on Jan 13. It is post 3 weeks now, and I am either near the end of the collagen building cycle or at the mid point according to who you read on this

    Today the red line type mark that is where I use to have a deep scar on my cheek , and has been visible since the 2nd week after the procedure, is a faint red color, and is fading fast. I would say that I am 80% to 90% filled in. I keep looking in the mirror especially when I am out in stores where the horrible overhead lights show up every little imperfection on the skin, and there I am 80% to 90% filled in.

    Well, I am going to continue to post about this procedure, and let everyone know how I am doing.

    I have some very shallow scars that I am going to ask the doctor about when I see her in February. These scars may not be deep enough to do Subcision on I do not know yet.

    I have been doing the 30% glycolic peels for close to a year now. I do one of these peels almost every 2 weeks. They help in the long run to soften scars, and I think that is why I have mostly shallow scars. I also use papaya from time to time and papaya also removes surface skin cells but does it in a different way than glycolic. Each has its own chemical interaction with the skin but the result is the same.

    BUT glycolic peels will not do much for deep scars.

    Subcision or Needling are the ways to get rid of deep scars.
    Take care,

  15. 😀 Hi Maya and all,
    The last post was from me and I was registered but somehow I ended up not registered when I posted my reply.

    Guess I took too long to do a spell check and proof my copy. :roll
    Take care,

    PS I was told by the doctor who did the Subcision for me that she has had a lot of luck with the V-Beam laser building up collagen in the dermis. She said that between her patients that had the medium depth peel (Obagi Blue Peel) and the non-invasive V-Beam laser treatment that she saw the greater amount of collagen build-up in the patients that had the V-Beam.
    I don’t know if there is any relationship between the laser you mentioned and the V-Beam laser.

  16. Solomio,

    May I ask, can you please post the name of your Doctor that did your subcision? If possible I may try to use her services. Depending on where she’s located. Thank you. 🙂 Cityslicker

  17. Hey Solomio

    I have been given the number of a doctor who does subcision in London (Harley Street -) Mr Stanek’s number: 020 7487 4454

    I will phone him next week and check out costs!!

  18. Hey gals nice thread!! Oh regarding derms, dont forget to add this derm in the “Recomend a derm section”!! I provided a database to keep record of great derms out there.

    Mari 😀

  19. solomia,

    Thanks for the infor on subcision.
    Please, could you give me your Doc’s name and
    contact infor. Also , How can I send you a private message from this site?

  20. Tiger just click down where it says “PM” in any post of the person you want to send the message. You will have to register tho for this cool feature. It will only take you a minute :wink

  21. 😀 Hi freedom,
    If the pits are deep Subcision should work well even if the circumference of the scar(s) is not very big because, well…you have read me say it before…it cuts the short collagen fibers that hold the scar down, and make it have depth. So if there is depth to the scar, even if the scar is small, then it will work very well!

    If you register on this board you can contact me by clicking the pm icon that will be on the page that has my profile. Then you can send me a private message. I mention this in case you live in California, and might want to see the doctor I saw who did my Subcision. I will give you her name, phone number and address.

    It is 3 weeks now post Subcision and I am still 80% to 90% improved with the scar that I had Subcised. I do use jojoba oil (Trader Joe’s brand at app $7.00 a bottle), and MSM/aloe moisture cream (cost is app $20 a 4 oz. jar) every morning, and I am using Retin A 0.05% every 2nd night. When I use the Retin A the doctor told me to not mix anything else with it so I do not put anything else on my face when I use it.. I wash my face with Tangerine Dream, which is a foaming facial cleanser made by Rachel Perry, and this product is not drying at all. Sometimes I use a Tea Tree Oil Soap but never near my eyes because it will dry the eye area out real bad. My doctor suggested that I use Cetaphil cleanser but Cetaphil has broken me out in the past so I passed on it. I take a lot of supplements that really help in healing.

    I have to get myself together and post the supplements I take.
    Take care,

  22. Solomio, im glad to hear that the subcision appears to be working great for you…i was just wondering if this subcision has permanent results? or do u expect to be getting another one done at a later time on the same spot? forgive me if u mentioned this before, thanks

  23. 😀 Hi stillwaiting,
    I don’t know if I will get a second Subcision on the same scar. It is almost completely filled in, and once the collagen from your own body fills in a scar it is premanent. This is not like when you get cow collagen injected into a scar. This is your own body doing a repair job.

    Getting the same scar done twice is common though. This happens when the collagen does not fill in with long strands to keep the layers of the skin apart.

    I slept on my back after the Subcision, and did not put my face on the pillow, just the back of my head. I kept my head elevated also. The doctor did not tell me to do this. This was my idea because I wondered if compressing the face on a pillow could affect the outcome because of what was going on inside the skin. Also, the face does hurt for a while after the procedure and you probably do not want to lie with your face on a pillow.

    You might think this is strange to sleep on the back after this procedure but it may be a part of why it has worked so well for me.

    I understand that collagen fills in for 4 to 6 weeks. My experience has been that the most collagen filled in for me during the first 2 weeks while I was still bruised, and had the red mark where the scar was before the Subcision. This is a very active time for the collagen to fill in. Don’t forget that I take vit C and ALA and use topical MSM cream, which all promote collagen growth. The MSM I use has aloe as the transdermal carrier so it does reach the lower level of the skin where the collagen is formed.

    We are all different when it comes to healing…that is why some people scar and some other people do not scar. I am one of the people who scars easy. That was before I learned about all the stuff I use today that really helps me like the vit c and the other stuff I mentioned.

    You know, I am a scaridy cat about any procedure that breaks my skin so that is why I only had one scar done the first time. It was the worst one because it was deep. I was afraid to do it because I did not know how I would react to the procedure. Now I am not afraid any more, and if the doctor can do some of my shallow scars I will go for it!

    I am going back to the doctor in a week so will post about this later on. I have some shallow scars on my right temple but I do not know if they are deep enough to Subcise.

    I hope this helps you in some way.

  24. thanks for the informative reply. I also have slow healing and easy to scar skin and will be looking into these procedures pretty soon hopefully after i get rid of my current acne…im not sure about how severe my scaring will be after my acne clears but i know i will definitly be left with some…im gonna try the msm gel and vit c for now

  25. 😀 Hi Lee,
    The first 2 weeks I stayed on my back, and did not lie on my side.
    The third week most of the time I stayed on my back.
    Hope this helps.

  26. Bump because I believe that this thread will help persons visiting this web site for the first time.
    Bless you all,

  27. 😀 Hi everyone,
    I saw my Dermatologist last Wednesday. She agreed with me that my scar had filled in 80% to 90%. She suggested that we do another Subcision to help it to fill in the rest of the way. The second Subcision was a little different from the first one.

    She numbed the area of my face that she was going to do the procedure on in the same way as the first time so I did not feel any pain.

    The first time I had Subcision, which was a month ago, I could feel, actually hear many strands of collagen breaking, so many that I lost count.

    The second time I had Subcision, earlier this week, I felt only 4 strands of collagen breaking. There was much less blood this time, much less bruising, and the area is not sore now, and it has been only 3 days since the last treatment.

    Right now the area that was Subcised is flat.

    The first time I had Subcision done my scar looked the same at week 3, and at week 4 as it did at week 2. So I know that 2 weeks from now I will know the final result.

    I asked the doctor if she thought the scars on my temple could be Subcised. She said they were too shallow to do this procedure on. I also have some shallow scars on my other cheek but could not have them done for the same reason…they were too shallow, meaning they were only in the epidermis of the skin, and did not extend down at any point to the lower dermis level of the skin. She recommended that I continue using the Retin A at night because she has seen very good clearing results on shallow acne scars from using Retin A.

    I asked her if it would be alright if I put her name in a web database. She said yes. I am going to put this information in the recommend a doctor database as well as here in this thread.
    Here is the contact information:
    Georgia K. Abrams M.D.
    Medical Village of Saratoga
    12948 Village Drive
    Saratoga, CA 95070
    (408) 253-4407

  28. Solomio you mentioned that you had your biggest scar done first.

    How big (width and length) and how deep was the scar. Also how old was it. Also did it have any discoloration still covering it or had it healed to normal skin tone.

  29. 😀 Hi will205,
    The scar I had Subcised was the only deep one I had.

    My other scars are shallow, and the doctor does not think they would benefit from Subcision.

    The length of the scar I had was around 3/8 or a bit longer. I never bothered to measure it to get an exact size. It was deep, and inside it you could see 2 pinpoints that were side by side but separated by a short distance. I guess you could say these were pit points. They were the main anchors that held the scar in place. There was no discoloration before the Subcision because the scar was an old scar.

    Because it was high on my cheek it stood out in certain light, and people would look at when ever I was in that type of bright light like the light in a store or an office that makes deep scars stand out.

    It has been 2 weeks now since I had the second Subcision.

    All I have is a slightly reddish bit of color where the scar used to be.

    I was in a store yesterday, and there was a mirror in front of me; I had to walk toward it to get a better look!

    I am very happy now that I had both of the Subcisions.
    It cost me a total of $170 American for both procedures.

  30. Bump for everyone :yup interested in various treatments to reduce or remove all types of scars including acne scars.

  31. Solomio – from the 2 needling sessions, the smaller, more shallow scars are starting to look really good – the deeper ones have improved a bit, but not enough. I am likely to get subcision done in a months time with N-Lite at the same time.

    Can I do peels before subcision? Do you think I could get needling done again 4 weeks after the subcision?

  32. Solomio – from the 2 needling sessions, the smaller, more shallow scars are starting to look really good – the deeper ones have improved a bit, but not enough. I am likely to get subcision done in a months time with N-Lite at the same time.

    Can I do peels before subcision? Do you think I could get needling done again 4 weeks after the subcision?

    😀 Maya,
    I think you can do peels before subcision because subcision is done between the two top layers of skin and the peels are on the surface but to be careful I think you should consult with your doctor, and ask s/he that question. Same with the question about needling after subcision. If the subcision you get is anything like what I went through I doubt that the doctor will say it is ok to do needling so soon. It takes a long time for new collagen to rebuild under the skin but you say you are going to get N-Lite with the subcision. My doctor told me that she has seen faster collagen building in patients skin by using N-Lite after the subcision.

    I am very happy that everything is working out so well for you! :tu

  33. do you think it’s possible to break the short collagen fibres with a regular needle? when I used to do saline injections, once or twice I would just move the needle a little to an angle and pull to the side abruptly and once I heard the fibres break. This was the first time I truly understood what people meant by ‘hearing it cut’.

    I know the subcision needle is different but was still wondering if it’s possible. Thanks.

  34. tantric – I think it is possible, but it is probably easier with the type of needle that they use for subcision – I think it’s got a bent bit at the end.

  35. are these needles even available on the market?

    also, this is so wacky but has anyone ever thought of using a vacuum nozzle? I was just thinking that if these are binded down by short collagen fibres, then a vacuum should create enough suction (if you stretch your face out a bit) to pull the skin upwards to break the collagen?

    I’m just curious if anyone has ever tried this and if it has the potential to work out? silly, I know.

  36. anyone know whats the best and quickest way to get rid of the redness that acne leaves on the skin?
    i know they dissapear in time but that takes quite a while…any suggestions?

    thanks so much

  37. 😀 Hi All,
    It has been 5 months since my first Subcision for an elongated scar that had 2 ice picks inside of it. It was a ‘double or you might say it was a triple scar’. My first Subcision for this scar was in mid-January of 2003.

    The 2 ice picks are completely gone!

    What I still have is a sort of ‘shadow’ where the elongated part of the scar used to be. I can cover this ‘shadow’ up completely with a light application of liquid make-up and a light dusting of powder. It is not noticeable when I am in a room with strong overhead lighting.

    I remember reading that the doctor in South Africa said something about it taking a long time, even up to a year, for collagen to completely re-grow after it has been cut. I remember that during my first session of Subcision I felt many strands of collagen being cut so that is why I still have a ‘shadow’ of sorts where the scar used to be. I still have some collagen that has to be re-grown.

    I know that my doctor, Georgia Abrams, prefers to Subcise ‘picks’ because they are deep scars while Maya’s doctor, Dr. Chu, prefers to use the punch and stitch method of getting rid of ‘picks’. It really doesn’t matter which method is used to get rid of ‘picks’ or other types of scars … all that really matters, for each of us, is that we get rid of scars completely, once and for all, with any procedure that will work for us.

  38. Hi Maya 😀 fancy meeting you here of all places, hee hee :mrgreen ,

    I wish my shallow scars were completely gone but they are getting less noticeable since I have been doing salicylic peels at home. I have been agressive with these peels. I get my salicylic from a woman who is in the MidWest part of this country. I call her and the charge was in the $35 dollar range, which is not a bad price for something that is slowly working for me. Everything is sooo expensive here in Silly.con Valley…that is WHY I call it dot con valley…get it?

    For a simple, fast TCA peel, by a doctor here in the valley, the price is around a K or just under … I seem to remember the best price I was able to find from a doctor was over $500, and this was for a very light peel.

    That is why I have been going the home peel route. I have enough knowledge to do this without causing myself any harm. It’s just a bit drying to the skin, to say the least, when the skin peels. You know the flaky skin is not very nice but it never lasts longer that 2 to 3 days and then it gets back to normal. This procedure along with the very fine scrub I use is slowly removing the shallow scars. I guess you remember me telling you that Dr. Abrams would not Subcise any shallow scars, only the deep ones.

    wassup with you Maya! Are you feeling O.K. now? I bet you feel very happy to have gone through the procedure. I think the WORST part of any surgical procedure is the WAIT before you have it done.


  39. I’ve recently ordered some Super Copper Peptides (which has sacylic acid in it) just to spot treat the pits – Denise has been pleased with the results.

    Yes – I am glad I have gone through with the subcision… and I have a month before I get more subcision and excision … what fun I am having :mrgreen

    The Do-It-Youself home peels are the way to go, really they are quite simple to perform – I think I’ve become an expert in Glycolic and lactic!

  40. solomio,sorry i have to go right now. your post looks very interesting but i cant read it all right now. could you paraphraze it? or like kinda tell me what its about before i do all this reading? cause i have red marks and scars and im still 16 i would like to get rid of them. i am currently using Retin-A micro and Azelex. if this post is for me, let me know, and i know your probably like the smartest one on here, or the one with the most advice so could you tell me whats the best thing i could do to help my skin look and help me look healthy as hell. haha really healthy sking and all. i want to go an a health streek,and i just quit smoking so i have to. i have vitamins B-Complex 75,body fish oils 1000,B-6 50,Vitamin C 1000. do you have any suggestions? add on’s to my list. i want to be the most healthy i can. like MAXIMUM HEALTH!! thanx solomio

  41. OMG! Breaking collegen…Bent needles in your face, breaking fibers….ahh!!! *cringes* I would never be able to go through with that….But Im glad it is working for you!!! 😀

  42. Kenster,
    You are in the middle of puberty since you are 16. I am glad that you are taking a more healthy route to clearing your skin at this point in time. Nothing you are taking right now can hurt you in any way that I am familiar with. BUT you should consider taking a multi-mineral supplement.

    Persons with acne need more calcium, magnesium and zinc in their diets than other people who do not have acne. the only one of these 3 that I feel I do not know enough about is zinc. BUT it is claimed that zinc is the great skin healer, and it is claimed that taking enough of this mineral will prevent acne scars simply by killing off the acne bacteria that normally lives inside an ‘inflamed’ acne lesion/pimple. This happens from the inside of the body to the outside. This is similar to what an antibiotic does. Zinc seems to be much safer to take than an antibiotic as long as a person does not over dose. This makes a great deal of sense to me because I know that zinc bactrin is the best ingredient to put into a skin ointment to kill off any bacteria that might invade a wound.

    Zinc is also critical for the sexual development of the male body. This makes me wonder if too much zinc for a young man could cause a problem by increasing the amount of testosterone that his body makes for sexual development? I don’t have the answer to this question of how much is right for a young male at puberty.

    I don’t think it will hurt you to take at least 30mg of additional zinc as a supplement. If this seems to work then you could up the dose to 50mg but I strongly advise against going higher that 50mg of zinc, on a daily basis, especially since your body is still in the developing stage. Do you eat red meat? If you enjoy red meat then you might not want to ever go higher than 30mg of zinc, on a daily basis as red meat is rich in zinc from the animal’s body.

    Azelex is supposed to remove red marks from the skin. It normally takes 4 weeks for Azelex to get working on the skin.

    TOPICAL ANTIBACTERIAL. Azelex (Azelaic acid) cream not only exfoliates skin, but also is an antibacterial, thus reducing the germ buildup that blocks oil glands and leads to inflammation. And Azelex tends to lighten dark spots made by some lesions.

    there has been no reported bacterial resistance to AZELEX

    Since Azelex has been reported to have a bleaching like effect on some peoples’ skin you should report it to your doctor if your skin seems to get overly light where you apply it.

    Retin A micro causes less irritation than plain Retin A so it is a good choice for normalizing how the pores handle the turnover of oil and debris that can clog a pore. It normally takes 2 weeks for Retin A micro to get working on the skin.

    Kenster, I think you are using really good products, and taking some good supplements. Like I said, the only thing I can recommend is a good mineral supplement, and perhaps according to what you presently eat, on a daily basis, you might want some additional calcium, magnesium and zinc but then again all you may need is just a single good multi-mineral supplement to round out your supplements. Heavy doses of supplements to maintain optimum health appear to be more important for people who are past 30 to 35 years of age because it is when we pass the age of 30 that we start to noticeably age.

  43. thanx alot solo, i heard their is zinc for acne. and how much do you think i should start off with? how many mg? and calcium + magnesium too.
    also do you know if herbs help? i want to be very very healthy i want all the good things i can get. arent herbs like natural medicane. and do you know were i can get tea tree oil soap? im going to vitamin world on the 7th or 8th. their’s one in the delamo mall.

  44. 😀 Kenster,
    My favorite Tea Tree Oil soap is the one I get at Trader’s Joes mainly because it does the job without the heavy smell that some brands have. There is a mild smell to this brand that does not linger on your skin. Also this brand does not leave a film on your skin.

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